It’s been a couple weeks since I wrote a blog!! Finals were a little tougher than I planned… but I have a new job to talk about! So let’s get to it!
I spent 10 days doing this bathroom remodel. Everything had to be updated… 40sf of tile floor, 75sf of shower tile, paint, vanity, toilet, and mirror. Check out my video below. Leave a comment and tell me what you think.
I want to finish the week with some cheap DIY upgrades. Specifically, upgrading a guest bathroom to get a more modern, and simple look. This was done at one of my previous homes, shortly after finishing the kitchen upgrades and tiling the entire house.
Since the two previous projects practically wiped out my budget, I had to do a ton of research and shop for deals and discounted materials. The hardest part was narrowing down the exact design and layout for the bathroom. The shower and bathtub were in great shape, so they were able to be left with some small touch ups. The toilet, vanity, mirror, light fixture, and hardware all had to be replaced with some new paint to tie it all together.
Some materials were picked up through the Letgo app, which is what I use to find some good and slightly used fixtures and mirrors. Everything else was purchased through Home Depot with 10% off from a military discount.
Starting with the light fixture, I was able to swap it out and brighten up the space for the duration of the project. I removed the existing full-length mirror and vanity carefully, since I was planning on selling them on Letgo to recover some of my costs. The toilet was trashed, and so were the old valves that were installed for the sink faucet and toilet. I was able to replace the valves for relatively cheap since I did it myself, check out my previous blog on plumbing to see how I did that.
Once everything was out of the bathroom, I was able to start ripping up the old linoleum floor. The baseboards came off first, but I had to purchase some new sections since the existing didn’t extend behind the vanity.
Lesson Learned #1: Baseboards are a pain in the butt to remove. The first thing you want to do is cut the top of them at an angle to separate the caulking between the baseboards and wall. Once done, use a cats-paw to remove them gently. If you crank on it like a pry-bar, it will put holes in the drywall that will have to be repaired later. Also, use a sharpie or pen to label the backside of each baseboard and the portion of the wall that it covers. The last thing you want to do is waste hours on replacing them when you have no idea where they go!
Baseboards were pulled off and exposed the linoleum. Once everything was cleared from the removal, I noticed that there was a gap in the linoleum from where the vanity used to be. I had two options to level the floor for tile, one was to rip up the ¼” particle board between sub-floor and linoleum, or just fasten the cement boards over the linoleum with wood to fill the gap… The choice is easy, rip it all up so I don’t have to add a transitional piece when tying into the tile in the hallway.
Contractor Note: Most home contractors will install the cabinets and vanities before laying down the flooring for that space. Why does this matter? If you ever plan on removing cabinets or vanities, you should expect that the flooring ends at the base of the unit, meaning you will have to find a fill that void between the sub-floor and final flooring choice.
Once removed, I verified the sub-floor was structurally sound, and started working on painting the bathroom. Since I had everything removed, it is much faster and easier to paint a space like this since I don’t have to worry about spilling on things and taping everything. Painting like this was quick and done within an hour.
Next, I installed the tile floor, continuing from the existing tile and carrying into the bathroom. This is the safest way to lay tile without having to reset your pattern. I waited the 24-hour period for the tile to set, and grouted using the wet cure method, spraying the grout with water 2 times a day for 3 days. The slow cure method lets the grout strengthen more than just grouting and drying. Once set, I applied a sealant to finish the flooring portion.
Installing the new mirror and storage cabinet above the toilet were the next on my list. This was quick and easy, just need a few screws and a stud-finder. The toilet went in next with the new wax ring to adjust for the height difference with the new tile compared to the previous flooring. Once installed and tested, I worked my way out of the bathroom installing the new vanity and faucet, then the new drain pipe.
The new bathroom is completed for under $700 in materials. Tile cost was roughly $225, toilet came in at $100, vanity was $150, mirror was $50, lighting fixture was $50, and storage cabinet was $70, paint and supplies were $50, and the sink fixture was $60. Total cost of materials for this project was $615. In terms of labor, the tiling took most of the time since it the grout had to cure for 3 days. Total labor would cost about $675 for tiling at 3 times the cost of materials, plus the cost of installing the remaining features at about $200 for 10 hours at $20/hour.
I was able to sell the vanity and mirror on Letgo to offset some materials cost, making $100 from the sale. Total cost of the renovation would be in the area of $1500, but with labor savings with DIY mentality, I was able to complete this project for $515. This is a cheap, and much needed, bathroom face-lift to compliment the remainder of the home.
Leave a comment and tell me about some of your projects! If you have questions, leave them below and I will surely answer them in future blogs.
I wanted to spend some time talking about some cheap upgrade options that can really brighten up a room. One of my previous homes needed a face-lift after I upgraded the floors, counter-tops and a back-splash. My budget was destroyed with everything that I had done prior, so I needed a cheap way to pull it all together…
I started by researching different types of cabinet paints, stains, and techniques for applying. After hours, or maybe days, of YouTube videos I was able to narrow down my options. I decided that a gel-based stain would be the best option for my existing wood cabinets.
Here is the trade-off, this stain combined with the existing cabinet conditions would require LOTS of labor and dry time. On average, every video recommended at least 2 coats of stain, and 2 coats for a protective clear coat. This option, instead of using paint, would offer a much better look and bring out the wood grain on the cabinets.
Materials Note: There is a significant difference between staining and painting wood. The concept of staining uses a viscous solution to penetrate through the wood grains. Since it is typically more viscous than paint, it allows a can of stain to cover a larger area when applied to the same wood. Paint is designed to completely cover material with more a more viscous solution. When it comes to picking what you should use, check the material properties and think BIG. By thinking big, you can pull things together for the space you are working in.
I settled on using General Finishes gel-based stain. This stain is right in the middle between paint and stain in terms of viscosity and penetration. It will allow a smoother finish while also penetrating to bring out the grain. When it comes to application, this gel can be applied with a clothe or sponge brushes.
The easiest way to do these cabinets is to take the doors off, and then tape areas you don’t want stained. I kept the inside of the cabinets the original color, but anything you would see normally would be stained. I had already ordered new hardware and hinges, these lined up with the existing holes or would at least cover them. Double check the hardware hinge setup to ensure your doors will close properly.
Once doors are removed, I had to remove the clear protective coat on the doors and cabinets. This will allow the stain to be absorbed by the wood. This clear coat is thin, so I used Scotch Bright pads with some elbow grease. As I scrubbed the clear coat off, the green pads turn white, that’s why I bought a bunch of them! Every video warned about sanding the wood prior since you don’t want to ruin the finish, these pads won’t let that happen.
Once the doors and cabinets were ready and cleaned, I applied the first coat of the gel stain. With this gel stain, a little went a long way. The toughest part of the staining process was finding enough room to store them while drying. I originally stored them in the garage, but low temperatures were causing the dry times to skyrocket, so I had to get creative with storing inside. I applied 2 coats to everything, and some areas took an extra coat.
Once stained, I had to wait the recommended 24-hours to start applying the clear coat. I decided to use the same manufacturer for the clear coat, or top coat. Applying 3 coats to everything stained, really brought a brighter feel, even with the black stain.
Reinstalling everything took a lot longer than I expected… Applying the hinges to the doors first, then fastening to the cabinets is really a two-person job. I learned the hard way how much faster the installation can go if someone is there to hold the door up, while drilling and then fastening to the cabinet. Drilling holes is a must with this installation since it saved me from splitting wood in any of the cabinets and doors.
To compliment the darker feel of the kitchen cabinets, I decided to go with chrome hardware and hinges. These were purchased on Amazon for a relatively low price and were easy to install.
Total cost of this project was around $230 in materials with a majority of that going towards the gel stain. I used 3-pints of gel stain at $150, one can of top coat at $50, and finally $30 in brushes and tape. Labor costs would have been outrageous if you analyzed the amount of work that went into this project. I would estimate the labor time at 50 hours, simply because I performed this project over 2 weeks, after working my full-time job. Total labor cost would be an estimated $750 at $15/hour.
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Last week, I received a phone call from a good friend of mine. He had been installing a sprinkler system in his backyard. He had recently purchased a new construction home with nothing in the backyard. He didn’t have any experience installing these systems, and electrical setup is never fun unless you know exactly what you’re doing. So obviously, I agreed to help in exchange for a case of beer and pics for this post!
Let’s start with the layout and ground conditions. In Nevada, desert conditions usually lead to a dry environment, so he must be picky with the type of plants and grass he wants to have. The biggest issue with a new construction home like this, is that the backyards are not finished with anything except maybe a concrete pad for a small patio. Further research into the area will show a small layer of sand and topsoil, followed by caliche which is a type of clay. This clay is tough to dig by hand, so power equipment will be required to save your back and time.
This clay will come into play with a later blog, but for now, he had already dug up trenches for his sprinkler system and mapped out zones. 4 zones were to be used to supply a grass area and two garden drip systems. Everything looked great based on my first walk-through with him. With this looking good, I moved on to inspect the manifold and controller.
The manifold looked nice and clean, and I was happy about that because it will let us know if anything is wrong during testing. The controller was a different story since he had a manual with instructions for wiring up to 12 stations, but only had 4 stations available. Turns out that the original contractor gave them the wrong manual, this comes in to play later.
Science note: Let’s talk about electrical fundamentals for a minute. Sprinkler valves are controlled by an electrical signal, Direct Current specifically, that cycles a solenoid valve that opens when energized. The valve opens, allowing water to flow at around 70-150psi depending on supply pressure and any reducers in the system. As the signal stops, the valve is spring closed shut. This is an important concept since you need to have the wiring exactly as shown in the diagrams to operate correctly.
Since the controller was only programmed and built for four zones, my buddy will have to make some decisions about his setup and materials. The controller was originally installed with one zone in the front yard, so that means he would have five zones. He could spend over $100 on a new controller, and then wire it and test it, or he can change his zoning. He decided to place the grass areas on two separate zones, then have both drip systems controlled in one zone. This is the cheapest solution to his controller and zone problem.
Wiring this controller to the valves is easy and takes 2-caps per zone and some 18-gauge wire, pictures are below. He already had a 12-zone wire routed to the manifold, so picking the colors to the zone is the hardest part. Walking the system to make sure my zones were correct, then wiring the positive and ground took about 5 minutes each. Labeling the wires to the zone is a good practice to start, sometimes you can remember the colors to the zones, but to be safe and consistent I label them.
Electrical Note: The more current and voltage that goes through a system, the larger diameter wire you want. Remember in my previous blog I talked about the bigger diameter, the smaller the gauge of the wire. In this case, the current and voltage are relatively small. Since the valves are commonly used, it’s a 24-volt, Direct Current (DC) system. The controller itself is powered by a typical 120-volt Alternating Current (AC), which is why you plug it into the closest outlet.
Once wired, we get to test everything. Start with the header supply to the manifold, which is the water main to the system. I wrote a blog a couple weeks ago about this process, check it out here. Check for the connections and for any leaks.
Since the manifold was good, we started checking individual zones. You want to turn it on manually and walk the system before back-filling the lines. Check sprinkler heads too, it’s much easier to fix without tools before they get buried. We ended up having to tighten a couple joints at the manifold, but nothing major.
Lesson Learned #1: Before testing the sprinkler system, adjust the sprayer to the direction of the lawn. You will be one wet pup when you jump and dodge water streams as you adjust the spray patterns.
Once each system is verified and tested, back-fill the trenches. Make sure to fill any voids under the pvc before filling the top. Add about 1-2” of extra soil on top of the trench since it will settle. As for compacting the soil, you can use a jumping jack which is super-efficient, or you can walk the trench since you exert a decent pressure on the trench to compact. You might want to compact the trench in multiple lifts, depending on the depth, this will help with long term settling of the soil.
That’s it, some easy wiring and his sprinkler system is running great. When it comes to materials, the most expensive part of the control system is the controller and wiring, which he already had. Connectors are relatively cheap at about $5. Labor for wiring took about 30 mins, which at an electrician rate would be about $50, using around $100 an hour. Lawn companies will give cheaper rates but they also might chart an initial show-up fee. Total cost for him was a case of beer and some wire and connectors, $30. Total savings for him was $20, plus he got a ton of manual labor in the form of shoveling and my back still hurts!
If you have questions or comments, leave them below! Subscribe to see more cool DIY projects coming up!
My previous blogs have gone over the financials and preparations for this major tiling project. Now we get to focus on tiling large and small rooms throughout a house. Remember, this is a large project performed over 6 months, and completed in sections. All contractor estimates required a long period of time, with access to an empty house, and with 3 dogs that wasn’t an option.
With the preparations done, we are ready to tile! The tile chosen to use was 6”x24” wood look porcelain tile. Tools needed are the same preparation tools, but will also include one very expensive tool, both to rent or buy, and that is a wet tile saw. This saw is designed to provide smooth cuts for tiles while keeping the blade cool with water. Make sure the cutting blade can make clean cuts and be sure to cut from the top of the tile down, meaning that the tile slightly chips on the bottom, it will look much better…. Trust me on that one. If you don’t believe me, take a tile and cut it, then flip it over and cut it again. What looks better??
Lesson learned #1: This is a messy tool, and you will likely be wearing more tile dust and water than you collect in the base of the saw. A good idea is to have plenty of hand towels ready for drying tiles. Water needs to be supplied to the blade while cutting, so ensure the pump is fully submerged prior to operating. Safety glasses and ear plugs are highly recommended, along with daytime working hours or you will have some pissed off neighbors. Look at location setup for the saw, you will see a water stream start to form behind the saw blade, so position it away from nice things like your motorcycle, that one sucked. Also, make sure you use hand lotion at the end of each day, the tile dust and mortar will dry out your hands quickly.
Before you mix mortar, look at the entire room and find the correct starting point. I started in the center of the room, based on recommendations from my YouTube training. This was a large room, so to find the center, use a measuring tape and chalk snap line. This will ensure you have a straight line to start and that the room is squared properly before tiling. What do I mean by squared, look at my pics below? The 3-4-5 rule for right triangles will allow you to ensure that your center-point is truly the center. This is critical for starting in the center of the room with a straight line to lay tile on.
Lesson learned #2: Large rooms like this have the potential to deviate from a straight line based on framing and drywall. Why does this matter? In smaller rooms, like a bathroom, you can pick a straight wall and start laying tile to the wall. This large room had a deviating wall with a 3” difference. This difference can lead to a major shift in tile gaps as more tile is laid. If I would have picked that wall to start, I wouldn’t have been able to tile more than 4 rows without having to correct with cuts in the middle of the floor.
Once aligned and centered, start tiling. Different tiles and dimensions will allow you to do different designs, just follow the instructions on the tile box. When it comes to tiling in general, you will want to start small with mortar batches, and find what works for you. Gaps between tiles are easily maintained with tape and spacers, but make sure you clean out the joints before the mortar sets.
Lesson learned #3: Cleaning the joints in freshly laid tile should be one of your main priorities. These joints need to be clear of mortar prior to grouting for the grout to do its job! I didn’t realize this during my first living room. I knocked out about 600sf of tiling and didn’t clean up one joint… the lesson… clean the freaking joints because it took me over 5 hours over 3 days to clean these joints with a grout tool. On top of that, I have never been sorer in my life because it takes a lot of force to get that mortar broken up! I was sore in muscles that I didn’t even know I had.
As this tiling begins to expand, pick specific areas to do and plan out where you will be tiling next. There is nothing worse than backing yourself into a corner or forcing yourself to have to stop tiling early since you can’t access an area. Stick to what you are comfortable with and your limits for tiling in the time you have.
Lesson learned #4: Plan your tiling according to your room and requirements. If you have dogs that need to go outside, plan for that. I didn’t plan for that and had a pissed off lady, and some pissed on floors.
Make sure you plan for the next rooms and the transitions that will be required. This is a major part of the project since you must start in one area and continue into another. Once you start, you don’t want to gap any areas that could potentially join up with another section of tile. See pics for my example on this one.
Lesson learned #5: Start new tiling areas from existing tile, planning on the intersections as needed. In, other words, don’t start tiling an area without checking for proper gaps and intersections. I did the kitchen on one side but didn’t plan to intersect the other side… So, I had to get creative on joint gaps.
As this room is finished, you want to clean all the gaps and joints as needed for grout preparation. Make sure you keep the area clean and use a vacuum to get all the tile dust and mortar. Grouting is much faster and easier than I first thought. The hardest part is mixing the right amount of water or add-mix to get the right consistency. Too watery and you can’t get it out of the bucket, too dry and it won’t easily spread on the tile. Use your grout float at a 45 degree angle to force the grout into the joints. You want to avoid using the grout float parallel to joints, see my picture below. Make sure you wipe up all the residue from the tile to prevent a glazed look from appearing.
Lesson learned #6: Use buckets of water to clean the tile faces after grouting. You will see a glaze start to form as the grout dries and that is what you want to avoid. Change the water often in order to prevent the glaze from spreading over large areas. Multiple buckets will help speed this up. Also, don’t let the dogs on the tile for a couple days or you will be repairing nail holes later.
Now is where you have a choice to seal the tile. For showers and areas that won’t experience large stresses, I would have premixed the sealant with the grout to prevent water penetration. This is a one time mix and done solution, then retreat areas as needed. For flooring I like to use a wet-cure approach. I will apply grout avoid sealing it for 3 days. During that 3-day time period, I will use a spray bottle to wet the grout 2-times a day for 3 days. This will allow the grout to cure slower and have a stronger compression strength, which you want with people and dogs walking on it. After 3 days, I will apply sealant to the grout per instructions.
That’s it, you have just tiled one of your rooms. Repeat this process planning your rooms and intersections as needed. The final product will blow you away when it is all done and tied in with decorations and paint.
I was lucky enough to get to see my parents in Dallas last weekend, and yes, I was able to annoy my mom into coming to Waco, TX with me. If you aren’t familiar with Waco, TX, it is the city in which Fixer Upper is filmed. Joanna and Chip Gaines are well established in their small town and have a series of businesses in the downtown area. We were able to go to The Silos Bakery and Magnolia Market, to get some of the best cupcakes I have ever had, along with a #Demoday shirt! Don’t worry, pictures are below, and one includes my Mom and me with Joanna’s Mom!
Now let’s talk about preparations and demo for this large tiling project. My last blog covered the financials and planning, make sure you read it, so you understand the schedule and why I can take on a large project like this.
First, we will start with the obvious, furniture needs to be moved or shifted to allow the area to be stripped. Check the areas you have divided up and see if they make sense for sections of construction. I split everything based on usable and functional areas, and decided to start on the largest room first. This allows me to have the most room for furniture later, and allows me the time and area to experiment with different tile laying methods. My existing flooring was green carpet, it used to be a light green, but 15 years of traffic turned that to a darker green. This will explain the dirt in the pictures later.
I sectioned off the areas for tiling and cut an extra couple feet into existing carpet to account for a temporary transition. I pulled the baseboards off, using a knife to cut the caulking at the top joint and a cats-paw to pull them off. Be careful with this step, depending on the age of the house, you might be able to buy baseboards to replace broken ones. You also want to cut the top of the baseboard joints to keep from creating massive holes in the drywall, pics also show that below. I had already planned an area to store carpet and padding until I finished the entire project.
As you remove the carpet, it is easier to cut sections to keep weight down and an easily managed size. Feel free to make cool things with that carpet, like my inappropriate pics below. I was also able to salvage a 10’x15’ section to use for my home gym. The more you recycle, the less you pay for dump fees. Inspect the sub-floor or concrete, ensure it is in good condition and clean up the areas that need it. Replace the sub-floor areas as needed. Lastly, ensure the flooring is level. I had to use some self-leveling concrete on multiple areas since the sub-floor tends to sag over time.
Physics Note: Tiling areas with a sub-floor require some additional work, unlike concrete slabs. You need to add strength and rigidity to the sub-floor to make it stable. If you lay tile directly to the sub-floor, the stresses of normal loads will wear out the bond between mortar and tile, leading to broken and popping tiles. Adding a layer of mortar, then cement backer-board, then mortar and tile, adds the required strength to prevent flexing and breaking tiles. I have pictures to prove this with one of my houses, they applied tile directly to the sub-floor and high traffic areas started breaking first.
Lay out your cement backer-boards and cut to fit. Remember that your goal is strength and rigidity, this means you want them to offset each other like my picture below. Follow installation instructions for proper gaps, and you should have all boards laid out before you mix mortar and install. No 4 corners should be touching with these boards, the only exception I would make is areas of small cuts like floor vents or weird corner areas. Once laid out, you should double check joints and that you have ¼“ gap between the drywall and boards for sub-floor expansion.
Next is the fun stuff! Mix mortar and apply as needed to get complete coverage between the board and the floor. Place the board down and screw it down with your backer-board screws. These screws come in 2 sizes and should be the thickness of the cement board plus 1”, allowing 1” of depth to the sub-floor for stability. Ensure that the screws you are putting in are flush, or lower, with the boards. Tile isn’t forgiving when being installed, and any bumps will have to be sanded or scraped down. As you complete this, you will notice a night and day in stability of the flooring. This part of the install you can walk on the cement boards as you screw them down, and after so it is much easier to complete.
Once done with all cement boards, mix up a small batch of mortar for your joint tape. This part will allow you to prevent moisture from getting into the sub-floor, and smooth out any uneven transitions between joints. This tape should be applied to all joints like my picture below. Once completed, you’re ready to tile!
There are some things I like to do while the room is completely bare and without flooring. Painting is one of them because you don’t have to clean up ANYTHING. Baseboards can be painted in the garage, walls painted inside, and you don’t have to worry about anything else getting paint on it. Wall touch up is a good idea as well. Either way, take advantage of this time to do repairs as needed. You could also turn this into a separate project like one of my previous blogs!
Depending on the size of the room, this demo and preparation can take 1-3 days. For me, as it was the first time doing this and learning at the same time, it took 3 days and help from my best friend Ty. Yes, he is pictured below too, but he is married ladies… so he is off limits!
My next blog will cover the tile installation and some lessons learned with it. I have plenty of things to share as what not to do, but also some important ideas for tiling in general. If you have questions, comment below. Subscribe to my blog if you haven’t already… That button won’t press itself >>>>>>
I want to start another 3-part blog on a major remodel project that I did with one of my old houses. This project was done over a long period of time, 6 months to be exact, and was able to be done with planning and patience. Is 6 months too long? I’ll be honest, it was a long time. However, I will say that I was able to save about $25,000 in labor and add that in value to the home. Do I have your attention now?
To start this project, I knew that I was going to be spending most of my free time working on it. The house was 1700sf, 2 bathrooms, 3 bedrooms, with a family room and living room. Going into this, I knew I wanted some new flooring, I just wasn’t sure about how much it would cost and how long it will take. I took a trip to Home Depot for some information, spoke with the flooring department, and got some good ideas.
I was able to get a total square foot estimate by subtracting the room area, which was getting new carpet, from the total home area. Roughly 1200sf of carpet was to be ripped up and replaced with tile. I scheduled a contractor to come give me an estimate on total cost and duration for this project. They came back with $32,000 as a total cost and would need the house practically empty for 2 weeks. This wasn’t going to work with the 3 dogs I had, and the fact that I worked from home. Looking at their quote, they practically charge 4x the cost of materials for labor. I didn’t believe it was that labor intensive… and man was I wrong… This led to option number 2…
Option 2 was that I purchased all materials and watched YouTube videos until I became an expert. Materials were roughly $5,000 to get everything, but I added about $2,000 by the time I finished due to needing additional materials over the 6-month period. Materials were all special ordered due the size of the project, and took about 2 weeks to get everything.
So, trading my time as labor, and some friends that also helped in exchange for pizza and beer, I was able to gain a massive amount of home equity on this project. Between an appraisal for a refinance and my homeowners insurance, I was able to gain about $30,000 in home equity. This allowed me to refinance that house and take cash to buy a rental property… just to repeat my improvements process.
Planning it all out, was kind of a big deal… it wasn’t fun to think about the timing of the whole project. I have included some before and after pictures below. I had to buy some additional tools, mainly a bunch of masonry items that I hadn’t used before. Most of those tools were expected and included in the total cost.
When it comes to timing, how do I plan a massive project spanning 3 rooms, a bathroom, laundry room, and hallway? Simple, I took advice from YouTube and picked the biggest room to start with. With linoleum and carpet, the job gets easy to demo, and I’ll focus on the demo and prep work with my next blog.
I came up with a plan to do this project room by room, this would allow furniture to be moved into other rooms and minimize the impact on the dogs and daily life. Most rooms were done within a couple weeks, some took longer based on my schedule with work. The plan was to start in the main family room, then move to the living room, hallway, kitchen, bathroom, and finishing up with the laundry room. It sounds like a lot, and it sure was, but totally worth the time it took for me to complete.
For now, enjoy some pics of this major flooring project. My next blog with cover the demo and tile preps, followed by the installation blog at the end of the week. If you have questions, leave it in the comments below!! Let me know if you want to see some other projects covered in a blog…. Chances are, I have done it, and if not, I’ll research for you! Subscribe if you haven’t already >>>>